Bruce Afran sues to stop wind farms.. whale deaths

0:00 Speaker 1 Put your makeup, this hair.

0:06 Speaker 2 Nine in it.

0:09 Speaker 3 Well, that’s right, it is time for our weekly look at the most interesting forty eight blocks in America. And as I alluded to, everybody is talking about the three ws. You have weed, which people are starting to say, well, maybe there’s a little too many. There’s far too many weed shops in Atlantic City. You have the water park

0:33 which is opening this weekend. It kills me that I am not there to enjoy it. And you have whales or wind.

0:42 Speaker 1 They’re sort of interchangeable in terms of the three w’s.

0:45 Speaker 3 And it’s looking like the Atlantic County Commissioners are seeking to delay these wind farms, but some people want a full out moratorium on these wind farms. That’s one of the reasons I’m great. Eight to Bruce Afron, who is joining us. He is an attorney for several residence groups that are actually suing to stop these offshore wind farms. Bruce,

1:11 thanks for getting up early for us.

1:13 Speaker 4 Oh thanks, Frank, glad to be here.

1:15 Speaker 3 Bruce, tell us about your lawsuit. Who are you representing, what are you trying to do.

1:22 Speaker 4 Well? Frank I represents three major shore groups, Save LBI, Protect our Coast New Jersey, and descend Brigantine Beach, and they’ve joined together in the first of a series of lawsuits to block these really close inshore wind farms, which will be fifteen miles from ac and Brigantine and Ocean City, and they’re going to be fully visible to anyone on

1:47 the beach. They’re right in the middle of whale migration cards for the blue whale and the north the right whale, the rarest animals on Earth, and they’re going to destroy marine habitats.

2:01 Speaker 3 The visibility argument is a is a potent one for me. You alluded to Wales, and this is something person after person, the Congressman, Jeff and Andrew and many others, even just last week, Council and Jesse Kurtz, they’ve all said they believe that there’s a strong correlation between the beginning of the mapping for these wind farms and the whale deaths.

2:28 Speaker 1 Do you believe that and do your clients believe that?

2:32 Speaker 4 Well, certainly, we’re concerned about it, and we’re looking in to see what the correlation is. You know, when these vessels use sonar to map the ground and whales migrate using sonar right in the same area, we’re concerned that this is the reasons for these increased deaths. But let me say that once these towers are built, hundreds of them,

2:52 eleven hundred feet tall, five million pounds each, those whales that migrate through are going to either be confused, they’re going to walk on shore in greater numbers, or they’re going to leave the area and they’ll decline even from their low numbers. Now, you know, there are two thousands of so blue whales in the world. Some of them

3:10 migrate through our area, and they are going to lose habitat the right whale is very rare. We’ve done miracles preserving these animals, and now this program to save the Earth is going to destroy these species.

3:23 Speaker 1 RYE. Rivered is a reporter for Politico.

3:26 Speaker 3 He was on CBS News in February and he basically says he doesn’t think there’s any link between wind farms and whale deaths.

3:34 Speaker 1 This is what he said.

3:35 Speaker 2 It’s really a coincidence in the technical sense of the word. There’s been pre construction activity and a bit of minor construction activity for wind farms on the Atlantic Sea board, and there has been an unprecedented or unusual number of whale deaths, particularly in recent months, and there has been this thought that there could be a connection, although there

3:53 really is no evidence that there is at this point.

3:56 Speaker 3 I also got an email when I announced that I was going to be talking about this, from somebody that’s a conservative and he’s a pretty straightforward guy. He wrote me, the wind developers have attained leases for space offshore, but no developers have been granted a license to provide power.

4:13 None of the factories to assemble the turbines has even been sighted yet. In fact, none of the factories to even build the components to build the turbines have even been sighted, permitted and developed. So he asked me, what exactly are the offshore wind companies actually.

4:28 Speaker 1 Doing to kill the whale? What is your answer to that cynical New Yorker.

4:36 Speaker 4 Well, what’s happening is there are sounding vessels using sonar to map sites on the seaflow for installing wind turbines, and the theory is that the sonar is confusing the whales and the dolphins because they use sonars to navigate. Now, it’s not absolutely certain, but what we do know for certain is that once these are built, and they will

4:59 be built. Started in seven or eight months unless the courts block it. It will destroy the habitat for these whales. It’ll actually concretize the seafloor, it’ll harden it, it’ll eliminate species habitat, and frank, it’s going to absolutely destroy the shore for the humans who use it. The developers actually issued schematics showing hundreds of these towers fully visible from

5:24 the shore. People go there to get away from industry, to get away from civilization, and they can to see an industrialized seashore right off the coast of a sea in Ocean City.

5:36 Speaker 3 Now absolutely eight eight four eight nine two two two to two. I’m going to take calls on this a little bit later. Given everything you said, the visibility issues, the questions about the whales, the disruptions to marine life, and all sorts of other things. Who pushed for this, either in a corporate sense or on a legislative sense,

5:58 it doesn’t seem like they’re was this massive demand for offshore winding energy. Who were those that led the charge for this?

6:08 Speaker 4 Well, for one thing, Governor Murphy is leading the charge. He wants to declare New Jersey carbon free by twenty fifty. Look, that’s a fine goal, but not if it destroys the most valuable natural resource New Jersey has. So the government is fully behind this and he’s pushing full speed ahead.

6:25 Now the governor doesn’t go to the beach he’s got in the state in Italy where he goes for the summer. But for the ordinary person, this beautiful door line that is so meaningful is going to be destroyed. So we have a lot of people politically who are pushing for this, and I have to tell you, Frank, there are companies

6:42 that will make billions of dollars from this. This is not low level industry. This is something that will bring in vast amounts of money to ge It makes thirteen million on every turbine you want to put up thousands on the East coast. Construction company are going to make hundreds of millions in consulting engineering firms. We’re talking about

7:05 a boondoggle of enormous extent and all in the name of saving the planet. But really it’s going to ligne the pockets of a few companies right and destroy our shoreline.

7:15 Speaker 3 It’s a different type of going green than what it’s being sold to the public.

7:19 Speaker 4 As that’s the way of putting it One.

7:23 Speaker 3 Of the criticisms that I hear of people who oppose offshore wind, whether it’s for environmental reasons, whether it’s for marine life reasons, whether it’s for visual aesthetics. One of the things that I always say is, oh, those folks were always going to be opposed to wind energy and the whale desk. They’re just using that as an excuse

7:44 to oppose wind energy. Is there any truth to that, Bruce? Are the people that are leading the opposition to wind energy, say people that tend to benefit from the energy status quo as it were?

7:58 Speaker 4 You know, it’s a nonsense. In fact, it’s the fossil fuel companies that are investing in offshore wind. Atlantic Stores is fifty percent owned by Royal Dutch Petroleum. So the idea that somehow anti wind people are somehow in bed with the oil companies is nonsense. It’s the oil companies that are investing in this. And the truth is those

8:23 who are opposed to offshore wind are trying to save another part of the environment, the seacoasts that we all treasure. We’ve worked very hard to preserve it, and now in the name of protecting the environment, it’s going to be destroyed.

8:38 You know, some of the people don’t realize President Trump in twenty twenty exempted all of the sea coasts south of Virginia from offshore wind. It’s only the northern states that are bearing the burden.

8:49 Speaker 1 Of this interesting.

8:50 Speaker 3 I actually, I’m sure I knew that at the time, but I had forgotten that. So what has the Atlantic County Board of Commissioners done with respect to wind development at this point?

9:00 Speaker 1 What have they said? What have they done? Right?

9:02 Speaker 4 Well, in fairness, it’s Mike Donahue is the attorney who is handling that case. But what they’re doing is they’re endorsing a resolution to fully mobilize and oppose this development. And I believe they’re also moving in court to set aside certain preliminary approvals from the state. My group has now opposed the state’s approval all the federal plan. The

9:27 federal plan can’t go ahead unless New Jersey’s deep approves it. So both the ac commissioners in my group are opposing these preliminary steps, but they’re very necessary if it’s going to go forward.

9:40 Speaker 3 And what is the next step with respect to the lawsuit that you and your clients have filed.

9:46 Speaker 4 Well, the state has thirty days to give us the record, and then our brief will be filed in August. We are looking into new lawsuits as well, though, because there’s a serious legal question as to whether the Interior Department is even allowed to give these leases. When President Trump exempted half the Eastern seaboard, legally, it’s questionable whether the

10:08 government can force these off New Jersey and New York. It’s North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida or exempt. So there’s a second area of litigation we’re looking into. Thirdly, once these permits are approved, then we can go to court to directly challenge the federal government because it’s disregarding all of the environmental harm that will arise. So there’s three

10:29 levels of lawsuits, and I can tell you the offshore wind energy companies are going to face a mounting, mounting challenge in court.

10:38 Speaker 3 I think that’s I think that’s clear. Are you optimistic that the combined forces in opposition to offs your wind in New Jersey specifically are going to be successful?

10:50 Speaker 4 I am frank, and for two reasons. One, I think logic tells us we’re going to really destroy the environment. And secondly, these companies themselves will already start to back out. You’re already trying to ask the better deals from the Board of Public Utilities, and many of them are losing their financing because it’s unprofitable. It only works tous fed

11:10 subsidize it, and they know they’re going to lose their shirts. Ultimately from Wilt show wind interesting.

11:16 Speaker 3 Let me end with the way that I end all of our AC segments. And perhaps the only thing more controversial than wind energy and the fight over it is your answer to this question and the debate that it’s likely to engender.

11:31 Speaker 1 Irrespective of cuisine.

11:33 Speaker 3 If you had to pick your absolute favorite restaurant within Atlantic City, what would it be? I, honestly, Frank, don’t want to take side.

11:44 Speaker 4 I’ll leave that to everyone else.

11:46 Speaker 3 Very well, all right, Bruce Affron, please keep us posted on this and anything else you’re up to appreciate it. Thank you, Frank, all right, eight hundred and eighty four eight ninety two twenty two. If you want to comment on any portion of our conversation, that’s eight hundred eight four eight nine two two two.

12:01 Speaker 1 Very diplomatic answer from Bruce there. I thought this is the other side of midnight.

12:06 Speaker 3 I’m Frank Morano straight ahead,